Posts made by Quercus

That is weird….really no different than auctioning off a puppy for a fundraiser...

Toledo, OH - LOST RESCUE DOG - A small basenji tan & white around 5-6 months was brought from Jackson county on transport, got loose has rescue's name & phone number on coated tag. Was in parking lot of Comedy Club off Heathedowns by Putt Putt. Please call if you find his or SEE him, he is suppose to be outgoing but maybe scared too. You can call Shelly 614-578-1250 or Jody at 419-276-3569.

I think they understand the practicality of right and wrong as in 'I just did something that the leader doesn't like'…or 'I just did something that the leader does like'. I think they don't think about it much when we aren't there...but if we were able to give them a quiz and say 'are you allowed to take things out of the garbage?' they would be able to answer correctly. But I don't think they have any context for right and wrong outside of what they have been taught; and they cannot generalize, they cannot say 'well, it is not okay to chew up the stuffed toy over there...so it must not be okay to eat these underwear over here' And when in doubt, they always revert to 'dog law'...so, if it smells edible, and they aren't sure if they are allowed, they will proceed as a dog would.

And then there are some dogs that just don't care. Just like there are some people that just don't care. No amount of correction, rewarding, bribing, whatever will override 'dog law' for them.

You had me worried there for a minute!

Yes, one of ours DEFINITELY peed to send a message on more than one occasion. Ivy got in trouble for something (so long ago, I don't remember what) and she ran directly into our room jumped on the bed, and peed on my pillow….

Happy Birthday Diggie!!! Hugs from all of us

It sounds to me like she isn't feeling good, so everything else is just pissing her off (no pun intended). She may have a UTI.

Oh, I just saw that you said you are pretty sure she *doesn't have a UTI. You might want to have her checked just be sure. One of ours will be crabby (and she normally never is) when she has a UTI.

??? we knew Nice piece

That was interesting! Any idea when the research was done?

Personally, I have never seen a situation where positive reinforcement methods have put a human at risk. As with any other training method…if done incorrectly, one could fail to correct the problem they are trying to change...but there is no point in arguing the details of our methodologies.

I think one reason that we see more cases of people dealing with problem dogs, is that when I was kid, and probaby you too. If your dog bit a kid you did either one of three things: you told the kid "don't bother the dog anymore", or you took the vet or the shelter where it was euthanized, or you took it behind the barn and shot it. People didn't want to understand why their dog bit, and they didn't really care, and they didn't think they could change the dog. Now people view the dog as a family member that you don't give up on, and many set up unrealistic expectations for the dog. People with problem dogs have to become instant experts, and they have people tell them they don't have a good relationship with their dog, and that they screwed up with the dog as a puppy because they were too lenient,or too harsh. When all they really want is a technique to improve their dog's behavior.

I am rambling....

@eeeefarm:

For what it's worth, I have never dealt with theft in any other way than immediately taking the object from the dog, and I have never been nipped under these circumstances by any of the many dogs I have owned, nor have any of them nipped or bitten any other person. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but most people I know (my generation, I suppose) deal with it the same way with the same results. I do think much depends on the relationship you have with the animal, and the consistency of your response. In my household there has always been a clear understanding of what belongs to the dog and what doesn't, and one rule I have is that nothing is ever "let go" because "it really doesn't matter" or "I'm too busy". I'm just throwing that out because I think some problems start very small and we don't notice them until they escalate. Dealing with horses…...who outweigh me by a factor of ten......I have learned to nip disobedience in the bud, before it becomes something I really can't handle. The result is animals I can control with the lightest of touches, that respect me and others, and that are as safe for kids to be around as is possible with a large, reactive animal.

Or, it could be that you haven't had a dog that was willing to bite over some item that they stole. Lucky you! Maybe it is how you handle your dogs as pups…or maybe you have just been lucky to not have a dog with temperament issues...or maybe dogs just like you better than they like other people....I don't know...

I do agree though, that many people don't address a guarding issue the instant they see it. If people did, that would help tremendously for a dog that has a tendancy to guard. Every one of my dogs has tried guarding an item as a pup...it hasn't worked, and they gave it up...except Ivy. I am not about to advise people to 'gain their dog's respect' by taking away an item when the dog is snarling and lunging at them. You and I might be able to tell whether or not the dog is bluffing...but do you want to put the person you are advising at risk by suggesting they try to figure it out on their own?

@Buddys:

Hey Oakley's Mom! I have a good book recommended to me from a behaviorist. It is called "MINE!" by Jean Donaldson. Have not read all through it, but your boy may just be a resource guarder. Your vigilance with him at this time is crucial. The trading of the object does not let him think less of you as a leader. On the contrary, a resource guarder does so because things have been 'taken' from him in the past…..The trading allows him to trust you even more, that is won't have to 'guard' anything because you are a benevolent giver! Trading is not weakness. Does not matter what happened to get him here, just go forward from here with exercises that lead him to trusting the 'HAND'. When you said to him 'eat' that was a cue for you to use to divert his guarding mind and pay attention to you and change his little brain synapses to a good thing. No teeth and posturing allowed. I have not read the whole book, but you want to avoid the posture stage. You want avoid this point to avoid aggression. TRADING is good and changing his mind about guarding 'things' is the way to manage this; and possibly never happen again. Good Luck!

I don't have time to go thru this whole post right now…and this response is so awesome, I am just going to quote it As some of you know, our Ivy is the queen of resource guarding. I feel her response was heightened because I did exactly what EEE described when Ivy was a young pup. My escalation of response encouraged her to guard harder, and eventually snap. I changed to a trading method, and her behavior softened *some. The damage was done. She never growls at me now when she has something, but she will growl at Tim, and occasionally snap at the kids if they push the issue. The problem with insisting that the dog respects you, is that if it works (which it won't with *every dog) it doesn't generalize to every human for the dog. Where as when you condition the dog to feel "happy" or "glad" when someone wants something they have, that translates in the dog's brain to all humans.

Gotta go!

OMG…are those turkey legs??? Hilarious...and really trusting that he isn't going to eat his hat!

@DebraDownSouth:

And to answer your question, I had Rottweilers, chow, rescues all the tiem my child was growing up. Yes, I had time. Active children do not need you supervising them 24/7. Children need alone creative time, naps (thank goodness) and in reality, my child helped feed and train the dogs from the time she was about 4. Dear spirits my 125 pound rottweiler hit the floor in a down faster for her than ever for me. And if you don't have time to train your dog and raise a child, don't get a dog or learn better time management. I had a friend who had a child with CP. Training her dog was her "me time" relaxation.

It is about commitment. And I can think of nothing more critical than dealing with a dog who is child aggressive. and I can think of nothing more irresponsible than simply choosing to try to isolate the dog from children when you have a child of your own. Do a web search for kids bit by neighbors dogs. You think you can't watch your own child 24/7== try watching the world. Which goes back to the beginning– condition the dog to see kids in a positive light and in that BLINK moment, you have upped your chances of a good outcome. I cannot even believe anyone could argue with that. So now I am truly done.

The part about it being unrealistic to directly supervise older kids 24/7 is completely accurate. Even younger ones to some extent…because...well, you have to have a shower occasionally, and dishes have to be done eventually. That being said, there are some dogs that just can't be trusted alone with kids, and those dogs can be crated when these situation are necessary. We have one dog like that...she has improved tremendously in the eight years we have had kids, at first she couldn't really be trusted around our toddler even with us in the room....now she is reasonably trustworthy around twin toddlers, but I still don't trust her alone with them. This change in her occurred with natural desensitization to the hubbub of children, time passing, and some concentrated work with her to learn to look to me, when she gets that feeling of "I am overwhelmed". So obviously, if she gets overwhelmed because a toddler falls on her, and I am not there, she doesn't have anyone to turn to. Not fair to her, or the kids.

I don't think there really is an argument to be had here. Both parts of the puzzle are needed here. There needs to be desensitizing training, there needs to be an alternative response behavior trained in the dog, and the dog needs to be put in a 'safe' and comfortable place when she can't be directly supervised with the kids. She will probably be extremely grateful to not be in an overstimulating environment. At first I felt so bad for Ivy when she required a time-out in her crate...but I quickly realized that often she was *asking to get away from the excessive stimulation.

For the OP, I really suggest that if you are committed to keeping this dog in your family, you find a really good trainer/behaviorist who only uses positive methods, and is up to date on the most current topics in dog training and behavioral modification, and pay whatever is necessary (obviously within your means). If you are unsure what trainers would fit the above description, search the internet for 'dog behavioral training' or 'positive reinforcement training'..or even this forum has a TON of threads about what kinds of training is out there. You CAN help this dog fit into your family...but it will take some work, and some committment

@Buddys:

Can you possibly ask the trainer some questions about his methods for aggression? (aversion, positive reinforcement, counter-conditioning and desensitizing), Go to his website too. What about a free, no obligation eval of your Lia, why the aggressive now, fear based etc…. Any trainer that can't make time for you before taking any money may not be who you need. You are the one doing the hiring so you should feel comfortable with him. Though basenji's are unique, they do have different personalities like any breed, but they are dogs and aggression may manifest for a number of reasons. Be an informed owner....PS: if he has worked(how???) with b's before, he is one up than most.....

I agree with all of this, except…it is unlikely that you will be able to find a good trainter that will do a free, no obligation eval. Perhaps a reasonable trainer would charge a small fee for a short meeting, but trainers and particularly behaviorists couldn't and shouldn't be expected to give their valuable time for free. You wouldn't expect to take your dog to the vet when there is a problem, and receive a free evaluation before you decide if you want to do treatment, right? Time is valuable! That being said, I will often do a phone consultation with someone, and tell them whether or not I think I can help them...and outline exactly what we would work on to improve the problems they are having. That way, they can see if they think my training methods, and our personalities would mesh well.

Having worked with a Basenji is not a requirement for doing good work with a Basenji. But understanding how dogs like Basenjis think IS. If he uses force or punishment to train, this is not the kind of trainer you want.

YAY!!!!! Congratulations!

There were a few very old lines of dogs who were always thought to be 'free' of Fanconi prior to the linked test, because they had never had a dog spill sugar in decades of breeding. Surpisingly, with the linkage test, some of those dogs came back as affected and carriers, and everyone was stunned. Those dogs were watched very closely, and none of them started spilling sugar…and now with the direct test, the ones that have been tested so far have come back as clear. We always knew that there could be some mutation in the genes that were being used as markers in the linkage test that would give inaccurate results...these 'false positives' are an example of that.

@nobarkus:

Sadie,
I would hurt to send blood samples to Dr Dodds or OFA for a full thyroid check. Most vets cannot perform the more complete test.

I agree; if nothing else, I am sure Dr. Dodds would love to learn more about this phenomenon

That is really interesting…it looks totally like a thyroid condition, but that makes sense..since thyroid, reproductive hormones and metabolic issues are all connected. I wonder if the AVMA has sent out a bulletin or something about this to their members...seems like it might be a good idea, so they can catch it right away...

Wow! I had heard about this somewhere else recently, and now I don't remember where. I am so sorry that you all had to go through that.