@lvoss:

I didn't say that you didn't state facts but you are using the hard work of others to add value to your dogs without doing the hard work yourself. It is very easy to say that you "are going to start" but until you actually do, it means very little. You have chosen to breed first and use the accomplishments of others as the selling point for your dogs which most people are not going to be very receptive to and has probably contributed to the attitude of others you have encountered in the breed.

If you choose to respond with hostility when someone points out how your method of presenting yourself appears to those who see it then chances are you are not going to get a warm welcome.

lvoss, Can we start over here please? I admit that I may have given a bit of an attitude and am sorry, I felt sense joining the forums we were just nailed with negative comments….. I suppose it got to me and I responded in the wrong way. I am sorry.
I did read you post about speaking with Chris and I just wanted to clarify one thing for everyone... SunDiatas kamli Uhuru "Miss P" was originally purchased by my mother. My mother became I'll several years ago and asked us to take he here with us... That is how we came to have her.

@lvoss:

Debra stated already, the baseball bat is NOT to be used to beat the dog off but to provide a physical barrier so the dog does not connect with human flesh when it charges the owner. You have latched onto one idea and are not reading what others are saying.

Trying to touch or restrain a dog that has entered "fight" mode is a recipe for disaster and advising people that it okay to do it because they are ONLY 20 pound dogs is irresponsible.

I guess I was wrong to suggest something I had read in a book by Cesar Millan and have tried with success my self.
I did latch onto the idea of a baseball bat, I offered my "suggestion" and just like some on this forum that do not agree with my suggestion, I do not agree with her's! That is all!
Bottom line is that there is an issue with his dog that needs to be corrected… I was giving a suggestion, Obviously, I do not know her or her dog and can only suggest a method that has worked for me...

@lvoss:

If you truly plan to become responsible people will support you but actions speak louder than words. Your sig block alone, still speaks towards your choice to use the accomplishments of others to add value to your own dogs as a selling point. What are your accomplishments with your dogs? What is your involvement in the basenji community?

I did not realize there was a problem with my signature, though I did not state anything that was untrue. We do have Champion bloodlines, also, our dogs are AKC registered. I did not make any claims that are untrue…. and using the work of others to promote our dogs is not what we were trying to do....I do agree with you about "our personal accomplishments" but, as I have stated, we are taking steps to begin showing our dogs.
To be quite honest, We have tried in the past to become more involved in the Basenji community and then too, we were received in this same hostile manner. How can anyone expect to keep this breed strong when there are people that love this breed and are trying to become more involved but, feel pushed away. I understand we may have made some mistakes. We started out as owners who loved this breed and never had intentions of breeding our dogs. so yes, I am sure there are some things we should have done differently. But, We WANT to learn and to share what knowledge we have with others.... that was our purpose for starting the blog site... Yes, we do sell our puppies but, we are also trying to teach others what we know and have learned from our experiences living with this wonderful breed. :)

As I stated, I do understand that a dog of any size can do damage. I was only attempting to point out that "I" do not feel a baseball bat is the proper way to handle this situation. I would feel more comfortable recommending a mesh muzzle before I would suggest using an object to "beat" off the dog….. Although a muzzle may not be the ideal solution, I feel that it is far better suggestion than to use a baseball bat on a dog........ For any reason.
A baseball bat imo will only intensify the dogs behavior and not teach the dog that their behavior is unacceptable.

@DebraDownSouth:

Your site concerns no one, it is the testing and lack of upfront information that is the concern. The best puppymillers have superb webpages. That isn't how responsible breeders are judged.

Too bad you didn't learn a lot before diving into breeding.

I hope you are sincere about wanting to learn and do things right. Will be watching for your responses on testing.

Debradownsouth, I realize to you and some others we may be looked at as a back yard breeder. I suppose I can understand why! Our goal though, is to be a responsible breeder.. I can admit that maybe we did jump the gun and had more to learn before breeding our dogs. but, We do realize this and are trying to take steps to correct this.. Such as, joining here on the forums in an attempt to make new friends and to learn as much about our beloved breed as we can.
Though we might not have started in the correct manner we are looking to change that, We came here in hopes of meeting people that are knowledgeable of this breed and are willing to share their knowledge with us so that we can make responsible breeding choices. Although, I am starting to get the impression that some members of this community have no desire to help "new comers" and would rather push them away than take the time to guide them into better ways.

Again, Maybe we got off on the wrong foot here on the forums. That was not my intent and I would like to start over if we can…. We do all share a common goal here and our love for this breed is what drives us all. :)

I do understand your point and was only trying to point out that there are other options than a baseball bat. As I stated, we are talking about a dog which weighs aprox. 20lbs. I realize not everyone can defend them self the same. but, a 20lb dog should not be able to over power MOST people..
I am not a dog trainer and am only offering my opinions, Honestly IMO any dog that shows that kind of aggression towards their owner has 1- a serious health issue that could cause said behavior, 2 - lack of proper training. Again, this is just my opinion.
When I was offering my advise I was using a method I had read of in a book and have tried myself. Though, I am providing a link to an article I have just stumbled upon that touches on this very subject…. http://www.pethealthfocus.com/articles/topics/is-cesar-millan-wrong.

Thank You Curlytails. I do appreciate you comments and welcome them. I do also understand that our site has a long way to go. I am constantly working to improve it. But, far from done..
We have been "lurking" here for a while and would like to become more involved. We do realize that there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here and believe that we can learn a lot. Hopefully, making some new friends along the way. We have not been as involved as we should have been recently with showing our Basenji's but are planning to do so this spring. We have also began working with another breeder whom we consider to be very accomplished and respected in the basenji world, to become more educated and involved in the community. "I am sure they are a member here and will let them decide if they wish to be named".

@DebraDownSouth:

Quote:
once the owner gets their hands on the dogs collar she can easily hold the dog down to show that she has the upper hand. The dog may resist, but eventually will realize that the owner has more will. She may have to do this a few times but the dog will learn that it can not dominate her.

I was so focused on the bat I missed that.

Alpha rolls, physical domination… that stuff went out with Kohler I hope. Your suggestion will result in 2 scenarios...
1. the dog chew the person badly
2. the issues escalate because physical response is the LAST thing this dog needs.

Oy vey.

you must have got the wrong impression of what I was trying to imply…. I realize that physically holding a dog down to the ground will only escalate the situation. I should have worded that differently.

@DebraDownSouth:

Let me refresh what I said:

You act like I suggest the bat to beat the dog. Please reread. Beyond that, we'll have to agree to disagree. I suppose you haven't had a dog charge you, but I'd want more than a water bottle between me and a charging dog. And frankly, the water bottle might or might not work ONCE … probably not the 2nd time unless the dog is really bothered by it. Letting this dog continue to bite is dangerous. You act like a basenji is some fru fru 4 pound chihuahua, it isn't. They can do a lot of damage.

Whether the dog charges due to "forward flight" (ie fear biting) or aggression or because it is dominant, my concern is that the owner NOT GET BITTEN AGAIN.

The owner has had a lot of excellent advice. We'll simply not agree but I'd like you to stop acting like my suggestion was to use the bat to abuse the dog.

I am sorry, I was not intending to sound rude. I was a caught a little off guard with the baseball bat comment, thats all. I had never heard of that method before.
I am in no way a professional dog trainer and was just trying to offer my advise. I do realize you said "only as a last resort" and that you were not implying that she physically hurt the dog.. personally, I do not think I would ever use an object such as a baseball bat, even a soft one. But, I have never been put in that situation.

@nomrbddgs:

Lisa Simmon's bitch Miss P (she just had puppies) is SunDiata's Kamili Uhuru. Her 'kennel' name is Northeast Exotic Breeders. That's what I found out anyway.

Yes, This is true.. Though, Miss P's last litter was over a year ago.. I wanted to clarify a couple of things for everyone…

We have just created our blog and are still working on many aspects of the site.. There will be many new features coming soon including links to our testing. The reason I had posted Ace's, "Ahmahr Nahr's ace number one" actual certificate is because we do work with people who do not have as much knowledge of the process and realize they may want to see the actual certificate. We will be including Offa links to the testing for all of our dogs in the near feature..
Our Dam Sizzle, registered name, "Mariah's lets get the fire started". and has won several shows before she came home to us. Our sire "Ebony" registered name, "Mibre's ebb magic man to Ahmahr Nahr".

I have just Joined the forums here and would be more than happy to answer any questions you have.

I fully understand that the dog was attacking. IMO I feel that a baseball bat of any sort is the wrong way to handle the situation. I also believe that if this problem is not medical related, It is,again IMO, that the problem lies in the fact that the dog does not respect the owner and feels that it can dominate her. If we were talking about a large dog such as a Pitbull I could understand the need for some type of protection. But, we are talking about a Basenji. I was only trying to suggest a method that has worked for me. My feeling towards the situation are that the dog feels that it has the upper hand in the relationship and knows that it can "get away" with it's actions by charging it's owner.
I would suggest that the owner work more with the dog to show them that they are in control and that the behavior is not acceptable. using a spray bottle will catch the dog off guard. and, at the very least, give the owner a chance to react before being bitten. once the owner gets their hands on the dogs collar she can easily hold the dog down to show that she has the upper hand. The dog may resist, but eventually will realize that the owner has more will. She may have to do this a few times but the dog will learn that it can not dominate her. again, this is all IMO!

@DebraDownSouth:

When I dog bites hard enough to puncture, you NEED professional help. Failing that, I recently posted nothing in life is free. You need to get to it immediately. Stop raising your voice, but make him work for every single bite that goes in his mouth. No furniture, no bed, his place is his crate.

He doesn't KNOW he's in trouble, he knows you are trying to correct him and his response is PRECISELY what an alpha does to underlings… he bites. You need to have a plastic baseball bat, the soft ones or very light, so that when you tell him to get off the bed or furniture, IN AN EMERGENCY (as in if he rushes you) you can keep him off.

I'm new around here and all, but really, a baseball bat? can we not try something more civilized such as a spray bottle with water? I find a spray bottle works much better than yelling or physical punishment. The dog will not like being sprayed and will retreat.
I would suggest next time the they are doing something "naughty" to use a spray bottle instead of yelling.

What a sad story.. Though Imo I do not feel it is entirely the Pitbull's fault.. fault also lies on the owner for not controlling/containing their dog! especially when owning a known aggressive breed like a Pitbull.