Thanks for the advice- I should rub the vitamin E right on there? Giving him the pill orally won't help?
I haven't tried the belly band. I'll keep it in mind, though.
The Ugodog in the kennel with him has been helpful. He, nor our house, no longer reek of urine, and that's made a difference for all of us.
So, an update. He's been on medication (trilostane- we found a less expensive pharmacy, so it's only $40/month) and his cortisol levels have gone down, but he's still having symptoms. His fur and skin is very thin. He's drinking and urinating a lot. We'll take him outside every 45-60 minutes, he'll pee a little bit; then you bring him back inside and in 10 minutes, he pees twice as much on the floor without any indication that he needs to go out again. We stop giving him fluids in the evening and take him out at least two times after then. Somehow, overnight, he'll pee in his kennel again. He drinks it (yuck!) and then just keeps peeing over and over again until morning. We got him one of these Ugodog things in hopes that he'll use it, but no luck. We just bought a new kennel that the Ugodog will fit inside of so that he'll use it in there and not be able to "clean up", so that at least it will break the cycle. I've talked to our vet and he just suggest wants to run more tests; I can afford the medicine he needs and the occasional blood test to monitor his cortisol levels, but we're not working with an endless supply of money, here.
Today, I took him out of his kennel and he has a quarter-sized spot on his side that's completely bare. No fur, but it's not quite raw (moist) looking yet. I gave him a bath to clean him off and put neosporin on the sores.
We're at the point where we're thinking of re-homing him in the near future. We talked to our friends who we got him from about what they thought. The breeder they got him from was, from their description, running what was essentially a puppy mill, or at least just not good conditions. Our friends admit they were young and naive when they got him, but don't want to see him go back to her (and she's moved a few times since then, so it would be hard to track her down.)
I just feel like we're running out of options. I want to find out what's wrong with him, but even if we do, my fiance and I both work 8 hours a day and we live in a condo. While he could get better for awhile, eventually he's going to need to be in a home where he's out of the kennel for more time and has someone to let him outside more often. :(
So we got the confirmation this weekend that Tana has Cushing's.
The vet prescribed a medication called Trilostane, which is supposed to not have the nasty side effects (like, oh, death) that the other drug, Lysodren, has. Only catch is that it's hard to get in the US- it's not approved by the FDA and it's not exactly illegal, but you have to order it through special pharmacies and they get it from Europe. It will be about $73/month. It's expensive for us, but not horrible. I'm probably going to get a second job (I work just under 40 hours a week, but over the course of 4 days, so I have an extra day anyway) to supplement the costs a little. I found another message board for people with dogs who have Cushings, http://www.caninecushings.net/ to get some more specialized advice if I need it.
Thanks for all the advice and support- we would have just gone on not knowing what was wrong with him, assuming it was just behavioral or old age.
Well, I left a message at the vet's office just after posting that at 12:30am on Saturday. They called me back on Saturday afternoon and said Cushing's was not included in the tests they had run before, and advised I could drop off a urine sample anytime this week. I was planning to wait until this Friday, as I have the day off and could take Tana out and get that potent first pee of the morning :rolleyes:
Monday, I went to work at 6:30am and my boyfriend called at 7:30, said he had taken Tana out, discovered he'd pooped in his kennel over night. He took him outside, and brought him back in. He had him leashed in the house while he cleaned the kennel and Tana proceeded to poop and pee on the floor, and appeared to be straining to pee. I immediately called the vet's office, left a message, as they didn't open until 9:00. They called me at about 8:30, said that they were concerned that maybe he had a blockage and would need to be catheterized. So, I rushed home, grabbed the dog, ran him over to the vet's office. They looked at him and determined there was no blockage. They took another urine sample to test for UTI and a preliminary test for Cushing's (a urine cortisol:creatinine ratio test.) The UTI test they did in-house and it was negative. The sent the UCCR to an outside lab.
Today, there was a message from the vet's office. It was from the head vet himself, so I immediately knew they found something. They did find elevated levels of cortisol in his system and they want to do the full blood work to further determine what's going on.
I think high cortisol can just mean he has a thyroid problem, right? I found out that my co-worker's late dog had Cushing's. I'm concerned because she said it got expensive. Not the medicine necessarily, but you have to consistently get lab tests done to monitor their levels. I'm not sure if the same kinds of tests are done with thyroid problems or not.
My boyfriend and I are not the kind of people who break up with animals- we both grew up with pets and never did our families put one down because they became inconvenient. Neither of our families had a lot of money, but we took care of our pets through all sorts of health problems and keeping them alive and comfortable until it as no longer humane to do so was how we were raised. It's really breaking my heart right now that I'm not sure I can do the same for our dog. I'm trying not to dwell on it too much until we know what's wrong and hear from the vet what the course of treatment will be and cost, but I think I'm going to be a wreck until that happens. :(
Very interesting, PhocoenaGirl. I looked up the other symptoms of Cushing's (on this site) and they specifically said excessive thirst/urination, increased appetite, weight gain around the belly (more due to the abdominal muscles getting weaker than actual weight gain- they just look more "pot-bellied"), lethargy, panting, losing/thinning fur on the torso and frequent skin infections.
Obviously, he has the thirst and urination issue. He's always had a healthy appetite, and he's always been a bit more lazy than other basenji's. But over this past summer, there were a few times when he'd be panting more than usual. I don't know about other basenji's, but Tana's not a panter, and the few times he has panted a lot, it was obvious that it was hot and he'd exerted himself recently. Cooling off and a drink helped, but this summer was relatively mild compared to past summer and still, there were a few times he was panting, out of the blue. I have noticed his fur thinning a little on his sides. I noticed it about 6 months ago, so I attributed it to his summer coat, but now I'm noticing it's not getting as thick as it usually does this time of year. And the frequent skin infections (another website also said "thin skin") also worries me because suddenly this year, he's been getting callouses on his elbows, some of which look a little raw. We really do keep him out of the kennel as much as we possibly can, but I thought maybe he's just been in there more because my boyfriend and I have been working more, so maybe s was in there more. But now I'm thinking that's what this is.
Well, I'm glad we maybe have something to go on. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see if he was tested for Cushings at his check-up back in February. If this is Cushings, could anyone give me an idea of the cost of the drugs they use to treat this? That article I linked to seems to say they can treat it surgically or just with medicine.
I think the problem is the context of the video. If this was someone who had a basenji that had issues and they were trying to work on those issues, and videotaped it to share their problems so other basenji owners could learn from it/give advice, that would be one thing. This guy, whether he himself gave the dog reason to behave this way towards him or not, is obviously antagonizing the dog (repeatedly) to make fun of him, and to parody Steve Irwin, who probably didn't think he was antagonizing animals either.
I have heard a noise similar to this come out of my dog. He has a preference towards women; we don't know why- we haven't abused him or given him any reason to not like men, nor did our close friends who we got him from. But they had situations with him where under certain circumstances, Tana would be very aggressive towards the husband and he would back off. Tana has growled at my boyfriend (we live together, have since we got Tana two and a half years ago, so he's not new in my life or anything) several times like that before, and rarely at me. Tana is very protective of his kennel- that's HIS space and he doesn't like it if you invade it. He reacts much worse to my boyfriend getting him out of there than me. We have learned to just make a conscious effort to either avoid being in a situation where we have to pull him out of his kennel or do so in a positive manner.
I suspect that his issues stem from his breeder and life as a puppy. From our friend's account, she didn't seem to be a good breeder and Tana came to them as a puppy with a broken tail- another "sore spot" for him (literally!)- he REALLY doesn't like his tail touched and that's another time he's made that noise before, when we or someone else (i.e., vet's office, if I forget to warn them) has inadvertently touched his tail too roughly.
All of this being said, the Pug bowling video - now that's canine comedy. :D
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I've been giving Tana drugstore-bought fish oil pills for over a year now. He gets one per day (not sure if it's 1000mg or 1200mg- I put them in a different bottle and threw away the one they came in.) He loves them, just like a treat. I don't have to puncture it and put it on his food or force it in him. He does have a preference, though- he likes the Nature Made brand from Walgreens, NOT the generic Target ones. I don't know what's different about them, but leave it to a basenji to be so picky :rolleyes:
Anyway, it was really cutting down on his flakiness until recently, it seems. Maybe it's just because it was winter and it had been awhile since he's had a bath. His coat just isn't as good as it used to be. He's 9 1/2, though and he's never had a great coat. But just in the last month or so, he's been flaky, he's getting callouses on his elbows, he's just looking kinda lousy.
His diet is fine, he was at the vet about a month ago and everything seemed okay, so I don't think there's an underlying health issue. I'm not sure where to begin. I've heard that too much fish oil could give him loose stools, so I don't want to do that because he has a very sensitive stomach and I'm afraid to change anything.
I was looking at the Drs. Foster & Smith site and they have several supplements for skin & coat- Vitacoat, Skin & Coat Tablets, Derm Caps, Skin & Coat Treats, Skin & Coat Liquid….any suggestions? If you do recommend any of these, I assume I should use this instead of the fish oil, not in addition to?
Thanks for the suggestions everyone- Tana's really more of a pee-er than a chewer, so I was hoping for something vinyl-covered (or similar) that could be wiped off if he pees on it.
Washing towels/blankets all the time is easier said than done because we're in a condo without our own washer/dryer, so I do laundry about 1-2 times a week at my parent's house.
But, I think it's worth it to try a fleece blanket and hope it lasts awhile.
Ha, I assumed that was the reply I'd get. Maybe something in a lovely kevlar?
Tana's just getting up there in years and I'd like to give him something softer to sit on when we're at work or other long periods. Any type of bedding, he'll just pee on, so I was hoping for something that could just be wiped off.
Hmm, the search continues.
I'd like to post to see if someone can recommend a product I'm looking for (a waterproof, chew-resistant pad to put in a crate) and I'm not sure where to start the thread.
Any suggestions? Or if someone has a quick recommendation for me, could you just post it here?
Thanks!
For his coat issues, milehighguy, you might want to try giving him fish oil pills. You can get them at any drugstore/Target/wherever. Just one a day, and you can either puncture the pill and squeeze the oil over his food or give it to him like a pill (that's how I give them to my B and he doesn't like them as much as an actual treat, but much more than when I have to give him medicine.) But having a good diet and overall good health, which it sounds like you're on the way to, will help a lot, too.
Make sure you observe a training class before bringing Hunter there- Tana's previous owners, friends of ours, tried taking him to a Petsmart class and the trainer suggested a prong collar for him and was obviously clueless about the proper way to put them on and use them with the dog….she ended up getting bitten and our friends never tried a prong collar again because they saw the way Tana reacted.
When we got him, after a few months of wear and tear on my shoulders while walking him, I educated myself about proper prong collar usage and have been using one on Tana ever since. He's soooo much better behaved with it and it's saved him from doing typical basenji things so many times (running at moving cars, other dogs and animals.)
ETA: I should add, I've heard nothing but good things about Petsmart's training classes- my friend's experience seems to be an isolated experience, but it's still a good idea to observe before making a financial commitment.
I have an ear related question- I just noticed today that the skin around the outer edges of his ear, like the part that sticks up, not at all any part of the inner ear, the skin is sort of thick and flaky. It's almost like he needs to exfoliate them or something. I don't think there's anything wrong, it seems purely cosmetic, but I'm wondering if I could/should do something about it.
I was sort of picking at it tonight and little bits were coming off, with a little fur, too. No bleeding or rawness. It's almost like the skin is damaged or at least a lot of dead skin.
The test my vet did initially back in February found no glucose in his urine.
No, I didn't literally FILL a kong with peanut butter! It was 2 or 3 knife-fulls with a couple of small treats.
Since the last test, I've been giving him about 1000 ml of water every day. He doesn't always drink that much, but he's able to get at least that much. He hasn't peed in his kennel once, he's not pitching fits at night, he's a lot more relaxed and he's peeing a more significant amount when we take him out. And winter's over. I don't think that's a coincidence. I'll still try to get some glucose strips to monitor the situation, but I'm chalking this up to a seasonal thing. When he goes to get his stitches taken out from his leg later this week, I'm going to talk to them about anti-depressants or something for next winter.
Thanks for all your help!
Ok, I found out the name of the test he was given- it was a Urine Protein Creatnine test, and it's basically to determine if he has excessive proteins in his urine. The vet said that since the level was normal, there was no reason to go into further testing.
I also found out that 900-1200 mL per day is a healthy amount of water for him, so we're going to have to start measuring his water. :rolleyes:
When he goes in to get his stitches taken out, I'll ask about the anti-depressants for next winter.
Tana wags his tail quite a bit at anyone he's familiar with and likes, whether it's when you've just come home or you have something he wants (i.e., food).
He uncurls his tail when he's relaxed, but he broke his tail when he was a puppy (before we or his previous owners had him- probably at the breeder's) and he's very sensitive about it. You can pet his tail, but just can't play with the end too much or he SCREAMS!
He will manage to squeeze out a "bark" if he's trying to get your attention. Especially when you tell him to go to his kennel, without realizing the door is closed. So funny!
Does anyone else have a basenji that "waves"? Like when he's on a leash, and he sees another dog or person he knows, he stands up on his hind legs and furiously waves his front legs. His previous owner told us not all basenji's/dogs do that. He also has a game where he lies on his back in your lap (as much of him that will fit) and you wag your fingers towards his face or chest and he waves at them. So silly.
Well, Tana came back from an overnight vet trip today. He had his teeth cleaned, a little growth on his leg removed and since that other urine test for Fanconi's had to be done with the first morning sample, I dropped him off last night so they could collect it this morning.
The test came back negative, which is good, but I still don't have a medical reason for his seemingly obsessive water drinking and frequent peeing. It's gotten a little better the past 4-5 weeks, but there was one weekend day, where he had a small drink, went outside, then came back in and peed in his kennel 3 times within 3 hours. Huh?
I wasn't able to pick him up at the vet, so my boyfriend did and he didn't ask the right questions, so I'm going to call the vet tomorrow with some follow-up stuff. Does anyone know the healthy amount of water he should be drinking? I've heard one ounce for every pound he weighs, but I wanted a second opinion on that. Our first step will probably be to make sure he gets about that much water and see if things improve. I'm hoping with the better weather, it will also improve, but I am going to talk to the vet about anti-depressants, at least for next winter.
thanks for all the advice- Tana's appointment went well tonight. The vet said he has some proteins in his urine- nothing extreme, but more than usual. He said it could be just the way he is, it could be a minor infection (but there's no white or red blood cells, so that's not likely) or it could be a sign of Fanconi's. No glucose, though. He said they needed to do another test, called a quantitative micro…I can't remember exactly what it was called. Basically, it would compare the levels of protein to some other chemical in his urine and it would determine if it was Fanconi's.
The sample has to be that first morning urine when it's potent. He also needs his teeth cleaned and a small benign growth on his leg removed, both of which require general anesthesia, so I think we'll drop him off the night before and they can get the sample they need in the morning.
The vet drew blood for some pre-op liver levels and I need to schedule the procedure for some time in the next month. I was sort of distracted when I heard there wasn't glucose in there (phew!) that I didn't get to ask about the anti-depressants or other meds for his mood and anxiety. The doctor's going to call back in the next couple of days with the results of the blood work, so I'll mention it to him then. I think even if he okay'ed us trying it, by the time he got on the meds and got used to it, it would be spring and the issue will have disappeared. So, I'll talk to him about it for next winter.
How expensive does it usually cost to see an animal behaviorist? Is there a website that lists accredited ones? I don't want to get some whack job!
Like I said in my original post, I haven't found a toy that holds his attention for more than a few minutes. The few times we've given him a Kong (filled with peanut butter) he's really liked it, but he's too quick about getting that food out and we have to be careful about what we give him. I guess I have to be more creative. Any ideas? I'm trying to think of some of those tricks zookeepers use for polar bears, big cats, other animals that are prone to cabin fever in the zoo. Maybe freezing some kind of food in an ice cube (he loves ice cubes!) Maybe some treats in a box that he'll have to figure out how to open. We've found some treats that are really basic dog cookies- they're made with normal household ingredients, not a bunch of stuff I've never heard of, so they seem to agree with him. Plus, they're small, so he can get more. ...off to search for a toy thread....
ETA: I don't see a toy thread...is there one?
Oh, Rockyswoman, can you tell me more about your Lands End dog coat? You said it's made out of a blanket? Right now he just has a sweater (argyle- so cute!) and I'd like something that covers his legs and/or belly, since that's where he gets the coldest. I've only found one dog coat that covered the dog's legs, but it was pink and made more for chihuahua-type dogs.