I think your 100% on spot Pat, and I will admit that when I meet a client for the first time and the "price" of my services is the first item up for discussion, I know right away its not a good start. (I am a financial advisor)
"""I think what happens many times is that when a person looking for a puppy goes to a "less than responsible" breeder that is only in it for the money, they think "making an offer" comes to mind. Mostly because with these breeders you do not get the impression that these pups and the breeding of these pups are part of their lives, not just a way to get a few bucks""""
Thats exactly what I was trying to say!
Thanks for clearing that up, I also agree with everything else you said
I dont think we see it all that different. I concur with everything that you said. I was just trying to point out that there is often a disconnect between buyer and seller which is sometimes interpreted as somehow caring less for the pup.
You said that you prefer owners who want to know what they are getting for their money. In a perfect world I would have to agree, but then again…the world is far from perfect. Most people incorrectly assume that Basenji owners breed basenjis for profit.(Why else would they do it?) Accordingly they feel justified in questioning the price.
I can tell you that my experience with our breeder has me feeling this way. But I also see the many terrific breeders on this forum that can never "break even" considering the time, costs, and emotional attachment they share with their pups. Many buyers dont see this (in my experience) or dont know this.
Given the time, love, caring, effort, and hard costs of breeding basenjis you would probably be justified in asking $5000 per pup, would you expect people to just pay it after you explained what they are getting?
People ask questions. And when it comes to money they ask lots of questions. And they will try to pay as little as possible.
I see how much it costs to breed a basenji the right way.
Here is another way to look at it. Should two different breeders be paid the same amount when one of them clearly puts so much more into it (time, money, and love)? I would have liked to pay our breeder less than what we did because as I see some of the breeders websites on this form I know there is a difference.
$1200 may sound like a lot to some people, but after its explained to them why its more than reasonable you basically have two types of people, reasonable and all the people who are not.
"So when I look at someone wanting to pay less I think they may not realize how much work goes into raising a pup, like Kipawa (Fran) says this maybe a person that needs to reconsider getting a pup."
So if you asked $5000 and they wanted to pay less you could form an opinion as to what type of owner they would be?
If after they are educated and they still want to haggle about price I would then agree.
Finally, responsible breeders should be rewarded with knowing that their pups are placed in loving homes that will be able to care for their basenjis. They should also be compensated fairly for their costs, but they will never break even on the true cost of breeding basenjis. I believe we draw the same conclusions but prehaps we took two different paths to arrive there!
I know that this subject is sometimes a sensitive one but having just purchased a little pup, let me offer another point of view.
First, when purchasing anything of value I always like to think I am getting my moneys worth. Sometimes I think people may take it personally when a negotiation occurs around a pet. I am not talking about the rudeness of buyers (or sellers for that matter) but just a small amount of indignation as to why one would even try to negotiate. Having said that, I believe you can negotiate in good faith and still not harm the transaction or the process of selecting a pet.
I personally think that there is nothing wrong with this negotiation as it creates a wonderful time for the new basenji owner to understand what owning a dog like this means (or being owned by the dog perhaps?)
Having run through the numbers before, I quickly surmised that no one breeds basenjis to make serious money. The real costs of breeding prevent that from the start.
Because basenji owners know this and potential buyers do not, it sets the stage for buyers to "challenge the price and breeders to get frustrated" as Pat states.
In all honesty, people who "bargin" just dont understand that its not a "financial transaction" for the breeder for if it were the asking price would be around $2500 for a basenji.
I have real reservations about the breeder we got Nahla from and I doubt we would recommend them to others. Having said that if I could have negotiated a lower price I would have. Maybe because I would have felt a lot better giving my money to someone who I could have recommended.
I believe that anybody who takes pride in what they do knows how valuable the service they provide can be. I dont think responsible Basenji owners are any different. The value of my services are questioned many times by new clients. I use it as a teaching opportunity and explain the difference between my self and my competition. Clients that "get it" are those I wish to business with. Those that dont, well we are better off without each other. I believe the same holds true for potential new basenji owners.
I really admire the breeders and basenji owners on this forum, I feel we are all trying to promote actions that are good for our furry friends. It is not lost on me that above all else a good breeder wants to make sure his or her pups are placed with love and care.
Well we have our little Basenji! I wanted to thank everybody for offering advice for dealing with worms! One week later and the worms are history (we will have our follow up dose of Drontal shortly)
My wife and I and our two kids age 19 and 15 all love our new addition to the family. Our other dog Jax the schnauzer (7yr old) is slowly getting used to her as well. She is a real puppy in every sense of the word. We have always had dogs in the family and now we have a Basenji to make life a challenge. The B500 is truly very entertaining.
Hope to speak with you all!
Jim, Janice, Kristin, Jimmy, Jax, and Nahla!
Hello Joe and Lisa!
Wow, after seeing your pics its amazing how much Gambit looks like our Nahla! I will put up pics today but looking at Gambit makes me think I am looking at Nahla! All the way down to the faint wisp of white on her forehead.
Nahla is small also weighing in at 4lbs at week 8! But she is very well proportioned, full of energy, healthy and slightly mischievous!
Good luck with her and make sure you put up pics as she grows! I wounder if they will look the same a few years from now.
Just an update
So we gave Nahla the Drontal yesterday morning. This morning she had two worm free bowel movements! So yeah!!! for Drontal, our vet, and Nahla!
I know about the eggs and another course of med in about two weeks, and we will provide a few stool samples over the next few weeks to be sure all is resolved.
BTW, we have owned many dogs over our years, both muts and purebreeds, and this is our first basenji. We have our fist remarkable "B" story (maybe not so remarkable to b owners)
Nahla will spend some time in a pen in our kitchen. A 36" pen seemed tall enough for her not to jump over for now. We know that would change in a few weeks!
After watching her turn the pen into her own personal monkey bars we had to put a top on it! She would use the horizontal supports as ladder rungs and almost climbed all the way up to the top.
thanks for all the quick and caring responses. I am happy to hear about the fanconi testing because I did think I had that covered before we went to this breeder.
I am aware of the need for fastidious cleansing and we have been very careful.
Our vet called me back earlier this evening and told us after a day or two we shouldn't see any more worms but of course she will need to be back in for the follow up dose. She also asked me to drop off another stool sample just to keep on top of progress and make sure there are no other parasites. And while she never heard of the breeder she said that even if the breeder did deworm, with litters of pups sometime due to pups vomiting up the medicine or reinfection from littermates it is not uncommon for this to happen.
I will let you all know how we are doing.I feel like I am fast becoming an "expert" on roundworms!
Thanks for your reply,
We got Nahla from Fortora farms in PA. her parents were Ojii and Tanzi, The only comments I saw about them on this forum was to be cautious because they breed a few breeds of dogs (potentially a cause for concern) I visited them, but could not find anything good or bad about them. The pups looked well cared for and we brought one home.
Its definetly round worms and I researched Drontal enough to know it efficacy.
because the eggs keep hatching I know thats why several doses are needed, I just dont know how long the whole thing lasts.
thanks for your warm welcome to this forum. You all sound like wonderful basenji owners!
Well we just picked up our new Basenji (Nahla)on Saturday and she is great! But…her bowel movement had roundworms in it YUCK! Did all the research and went to our trusted vet. I am awaiting a call back because we forgot to ask when we were there but, how long after we gave her the dewormer should the worms clear up?
The breeder was surprised because he told me that they gave her dewormer at 3 weeks, 5 weeks, and again last Tuesday which would have been around 7 weeks, (Not wanting to be skeptical, I hope they did what they said.) Anyway the vet put Nahla on a different dewormer (Drontal) and she is pooping out worms. Her first dose was this morning.
I know we have to bring her back in a week but my question is, how long will the worms be present? Are worms visable through all the treatment periods? Will we still be seeing them for another two weeks?
She is alert, and active, She looks great, is playful, no diarrhea good appetite, and is so much fun.
We feel bad for her and want these nasty things gone!
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Some people might be wondering why the first dose was this morning. The earliest we could get her in was Sunday morning and the vet gave her the first dose in his office. When we got home she threw it up. (No worms in her vomit) So we picked up another pill on Sunday night and we were instructed to give it to her with food this morning. She kept this dose down with no troubles.