Posts made by direy01

Ivoss, the article you sent leads me to believe you think we have been physical or have been taught to be. That never even crossed my mind. In fact 90% of what we're doing is non verbal.
It was either euthanize him or bring him back home and we're doing the best we can. The behaviorist was highly recommended by several rescue groups that have used her in the past and because we chose to bring him back to our home we needed some serious help.
A lot of what was in my post was meant to be light hearted, like me puffing up when I saw him. That wasn't literal. Geez. And if I made him stay at his pad for 30 minutes, so be it. We're not hanging him upside down by a choke collar or drowning him so he becomes submissive. But yes, we will bump him with our knees a little bit if he leans on us. That's terribly cruel I know (that's a joke too). I feel like I've had to defend every stinkin' decision I've made since this happened. If we would've euthanized him, I would've gotten slammed, because I say he's dominant or aggressive, I get an article sent to me about violent corrective tactics and that dominance doesn't really exist. I don't care what you call it, it is what it is and we got the best help we could find and that's what we're following because it's the only thing that's seemed to have any impact. And if a little bump in his side with our knee is violent then I guess it is.

Hey everyone,

Lots of you wanted a follow up on Joey so here it is. It'll probably read a little disjointed because I'm just going to put my thoughts down as they come. For those of you who don't know the background about Joey you can read the thread at Bitten & Constant Growling - Please Help!

So after I picked Joey up from his stay at the vet, I picked my husband up from work and we drove him directly to the behaviorist, Angie Woods. She already knew the bulk of the story and due to the severity of his behavior, believed he needed to stay with her for 2 weeks. She gave us a lot of information about how to be alpha on the first visit and I felt empowered right off the bat and was ready to get this show on the road. Well, turns out it was kind of like going to a personal trainer who pumps you up to believe you're a bodybuilder but next time you go to the gym you quickly realize you're still a wimp. This is kind of what happened the first time we went to see him a week later. I was so impressed by how submissive he was around us. He was like a different dog. Ears back, tail down. I'd never seen this except on the very first day we rescued him on the side of the road. This was good. I puffed up a little and thought "I'll show you buddy." Until they let him approach me. The behaviorist wanted to see how he'd react to me and how I'd respond to him if he tried getting in my space. So while she was holding the leash, she gave it a little slack and what'd he do? He jumped on me. What'd I do? I stepped back and almost pooed my pants. Dang it! It wasn't even anything aggressive (dominant yes but not aggressive), I think he was just happy to see me. So much for being empowered. I cried half the way home and wondered if we had rocks for brains thinking about bringing him back into our home.

Well all of us got more coaching and a few days later we went to see him again. I was still a little uncomfortable but it was better. I walked him which was a huge thing. He wasn't pulling, leaning on me or stopping to roll over in front of me to get me to pet him. So far so good. We got more coaching and more homework.

So…...yesterday was the day we got to pick him up. He's a different dog. The energy around him is so much calmer and respectful. My husband and I just look at each other like 'what the heck's going on?' It's really the most bizarre thing I've seen. Angie said he's got a 'lot of spice in him' (I love that) so we'll have to be diligent and consistent with the behavior which we knew but that's okay. We're committed to seeing this through. Oh and I have to tell you the thing I was most impressed with! When we were walking him, he looked happy for the first time on a walk. He didn't have that manic look about him, just happy and content. That did my heart good.

Okay, so he's home now and he's tried a few times to get by with stuff he shouldn't but after correcting him and showing him we're not joking, he goes into being that submissive guy he was with Angie.

Oh and get this!! (Sorry I know this is long but I'm just so excited about everything that's happened and hearing this might help someone going through something similar so please bear with me.) So this morning while I was at the computer, he tried getting up from his spot to go in the front room. Nothing good happens in that front room with Joey so I got up and sternly took him back to his little pad on the floor - about 10' from me so he's not too close to me. He stayed there about 5 minutes then tried getting up again. Nope, not happening buddy. I took him back to the pad. About 10 minutes later he tried going up the stairs (these are all his comfort zones that he likes to control) so I took him back to the pad and showed him I meant business. Then about 15 minutes later he slowly got up from the pad again and was literally creeping by me with his ears back and his tail between his legs, actually LOOKING at me, like "can I do this?" Of course I took him back to his pad again, where he stayed until I let him outside. Woohoo!!!!!!! He SLINKED!!!! Just like my dog that got attacked by him does when he walks by Joey. That was huge, huge, huge.

I'll leave it on that good note. The behaviorist thinks he'll probably be good for a week or two before he really tries to test us. Oh joy. But I know we're a lot more prepared to deal with it when that happens.

I've probably gotten on some of your nerves by thanking you for your support so much but really, you guys were my life line when I didn't know what in the world I was going to do. Hopefully I can reciprocate a little by sharing the rest of Joey's story and let others know that there is light at the end of the tunnel when dealing with an aggressive dog.

Boy, are you guys right about him picking it up on my nerves. I've never been around a dog who's so intuitive. We've gone to see him twice since he's been at "boot camp" and I even walked him and everything went well. He had his tail between his legs. Hadn't seen that since the day we rescued him! Of course I had a sense of security with the behaviorist being right there but I am feeling better about it. And yeah, deep breathing works wonders!

Hi Maxie,

I'm sorry to hear you're having some issues with your dog. About the video, I forgot to let everyone know that it was just a hair too big to post on youtube so I couldn't post it. I just thought of another site I could try. I'll let you know if that works.

What's your dog doing? Did it just start? Joey had been growling for awhile and has always been moody in the morning and at night but it had gotten worse a few weeks before he bit me. After ruling out anything medical, we pretty much decided it was behavioral so he's been at a behaviorist's for almost 2 weeks now. We bring him home Wednesday so we'll see how it goes. But I can tell you from experience the more we kind of slid back into letting him get his way with things the more he thought he was the head cheese. I think I said earlier that we followed the initial training tips to a tee but looking back I can see that the better he got, the more we let him get his way. Big mistake! He took it and ran with it to the point of thinking he was my boss. Hence the nasty bite I got.

So….maybe you need to show him who's in charge again? I'm sure that's obvious to you but thought I'd throw it out there. I'm happy to help any way I can.

To everyone else who's been so supportive on this forum, I'm planning on giving you an update after he's home for a couple days. I'm excited to have him home but a little apprehensive. Oh yeah, about my paintings, I didn't post them on here because I figured everyone was interested in only Basenji paintings and I'd never done one before but I have started on one that looks pretty cute so if I ever finish it I'll put it in the Classifieds section. (Wow, that's a long sentence!)

Good idea. I just sent an email asking if it was ok to post my web address on here. I'll warn you, this ain't your grandma's art. How's that for a tease?

Well we saw Joey tonight and I have to say I couldn't even pet him. I didn't know they were going to let him out of the crate without a leash on and I nearly had a panic attack. I was a lot more afraid of him than i thought I'd be and I'm just standing there thinking what in the world are we doing? I can't even pet this dog, my heart's racing a mile a minute and he's coming home to live with us? And then the foster coordinator chimes in, "I've had plenty of dogs bit me. I just bite 'em back." Wow, really? Why hasn't anyone told me that's how you deal with an aggressive dog? Guess we don't need the behaviorist after all. Aaagh!

Oh, thank you all so much. I know I sound like a pollyanna but I never dreamed I'd receive so much support from complete strangers.

Well we are meeting the foster coordinator at the vet clinic in about an hour to sign the adoption papers. We're even going to get to take him out and play with him a little bit! I'm sure curious to see how he'll behave. Then first thing tomorrow I'll pick him up and take him directly to the behaviorist. A rescue group recommended that I put together a fund raising page for him. We're getting a great discount to have him stay there for a week but truth be told we're kind of struggling right now. I hate to even post this here because everyone already does so much to help in their own communities but I thought I would. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'd be happy to do an animal painting that you could auction off or sell at an event to help recoup some of the money (although they probably won't sell for much!) I can share my art website if anyone's interested.

Thanks so much everyone.

Good news! I talked with Angie Woods - the Atlanta Dog Whisperer who comes highly recommended by other rescue folks in the area - and we're taking Joey to her place Wed at 10:30 am. She wants him to stay with her for awhile, about a week I think, so we're going to board him one more night so we can just take him there right from the vet clinic. Her regular price is $1,200 but she's giving us a discount rate of $500 given the circumstances with him being a foster, etc. That's awesome!

And I've said it before but I'm just blown away by everyone's support. There are even a couple rescue groups here that are going to try to raise some money to help w/the costs. Absolutely amazing. And Sharron let me call her this morning to pick her brain and was so sweet and helpful. And and and.

I'm so thrilled that we have an actual plan of action now. Thanks so much for your guys' help and input! I'll let you know how it goes.

MaxBooBooBear, I'm sure we're going to have to do exactly what you did with Pepper in terms of taking special care/management for as long as we have him but if that's what it takes then that's what we'll do. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Pat. Again, I appreciate the support. It means a lot.

Sharron, I would love to ask you a question about Joey's behavior since you've had similar experiences with Basenjis but it's too in depth to do here. Would it be at all possible to chat with you for a few minutes in the next couple days? I won't take up much of your time but I have this niggling thing that keeps bugging me and think you could offer a good perspective.

And sorry to anyone if I sounded short in my last post. Everyone's been so supportive on here and I really appreciate the input, regardless of your opinions. It's just been an awfully long week and I'm stressed because he comes home tomorrow and I'm pretty clueless as to how all this is going to turn out.

I'm certainly not going to rehome him. We're bringing him back home tomorrow and like I said in a previous post, I realize I was being naive in thinking he could possibly be rehomed and in major denial of how serious the problem was. This is my baby, foster or not, and we see him being nothing but sweet and loving 99.9% of the time so it's easy to be a little deluded right after something like this happens.

We're meeting with a trainer/behaviorist this week to try to get some answers and help dealing with him. We need to give him a chance because right now we just don't know enough to make a major decision like putting him down. We only have Joey's best interest at heart and we above anyone don't want him to suffer so if it comes to that then it does.

The more I read everyone's posts the more delusional I think I am in thinking we can rehome him.

Agilebasenji, you're absolutely right. People who deal with this stuff obviously have their own dogs and probably aren't going to want to introduce an off balance (that sounds so much better that sounds than crazy) dog to the mix. But thanks for the links. I'm a die hard so I'll definitely check them out.

Quercus, what an awful story but how good of you to do that for your parents because that had to be agonizing. Unfortunately, I'm sure a lot of us on these message boards can relate.

I think we know how this is going to turn out but I just can't face it. However, the last thing I want is for him to be in pain - or anyone else get hurt - so as hard as it will be if it comes to that, we'll do the right thing.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and taking the time to tell me your stories. It's helped a lot and I appreciate it more than you know.

Sharon, I had actually seen your post on the other site because believe me, I've been doing a LOT of research. I hadn't heard of it before I saw your post but right after, I asked that he be tested for lyme disease. He was and that's not it. His thyroid levels look good. Your post is very important though for people looking for an answer so thank you for cross posting here.

Andrea, no you don't have a depressing pov, just a realistic one. Please understand that the only way I would even consider rehoming Joey is if he went to someone who had loads of experience with aggression and actually knew what they were doing and were kind with their discipline. As far as the training we received, I know there are rum dum trainers out there too. Just because they may have received a certificate means nothing to me but everything she said made sense to us so I trust her opinion. I think the idea of physically restraining a raging dog is ridiculous and dangerous and the thought of being remotely physical in terms of disciplining is unconscionable. We only do positive reinforcement and give instructions and discipline in a calm manner. Not saying we're perfect but I really think we've really stepped up to the challenge. We know we can't treat him the same as our other dogs but it's the only way we could even try to manage him. He's been a huge learning experience and when you have a dog like this you learn awfully quick.

I really think (and yes, maybe I'm being naive here) that he'd absolutely thrive in an environment where he was the only dog and he could be given lots of work to do with a person who knows how to handle aggression. So I've been emailing some trainers to see if they might be interested. I'm eating and breathing this because I'm so freaked out about what's going to happen come Monday. I almost wish we knew he couldn't be rehabilitated because the thought of having to make the ultimate decision is heart wrenching. When do you stop trying to find answers?

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with your dogs. I certainly have considered a brain tumor or something like that. It's just too bizarre.

Can I ask you what you did in those cases? In terms of treatment and how you handled it? And I hate to even ask this but did it come down to having to put them down? I don't think I could handle that especially since what Joey has might be treatable.

For what it's worth, I just posted the video I took of him while he was in his crate growling and for lack of a better word, raging. Maybe someone can make some sense of it because it shows him going in and out of it. Mostly snarling but every once in a while he'll lean up against the crate and want to be petted. It's 15 minutes long (since I don't know how to edit it) but if you go just before the middle of it, you can really see him action. SIGH. I'll let you know when it's up - takes awhile after it's posted on youtube.

I've heard of Rage Syndrome but somehow in the mix of everything else like trying to find him a new home by Monday with someone who has time and patience to deal with his issues (yeah, good luck right?), and trying to weed any physical problems, I somehow forgot about it. I'll definitely look into it again. It's just the strangest thing I've ever seen. Having grown up with dogs my whole life and working at a vet clinic for a lot of years, this is definitely a first.

Yes, he is a foster but we had actually decided to adopt him. He really is the sweetest dog with the most bizarre ability to communicate almost like a person. He's just a cool guy so this is absolutely breaking our hearts because we know we can't bring him back in the house and we know we won't be putting him down. My husband would actually be okay with bringing him home which has caused a little tension because like I told him, if I hadn't raised my arm (the worst bite was in the arm pit), he probably would've gotten my neck or face. Scary stuff.

It's so hard to tell whether it behavioral, neurological, physical. But you've given me a spark of hope again with the Rage Syndrome. Who knows, maybe it fits and we can at least having a starting point. See, I'm talking like we're keeping him. I'm so torn. And you're right, we're definitely hurt by the whole thing but I understand it wasn't personal. He had to be scared, hurting or something I don't understand to act that way. Sorry for going on, didn't realize I was going to use this forum as a therapy session. It's been a rough week but we'll figure something out. Thanks a lot for your reply.

I'm a foster mom of a 2 yr old Basenji/Shepherd mix (?). With just a split second warning and no apparent trigger, he bit me the other day. This is the second time - he got my husband shortly after we rescued him about about 16 months ago. We immediately met with a well respected trainer who deals with aggressive dogs and followed her instructions to a tee, making sure he knows we're alpha, blah blah so I don't really think that's an issue.

He's always been a little snarly early in the morning and late at night but he'd always stop right away and would be fine like it never happened. But this time he went after me and bit me in four places, even tearing a foot long gash in my shorts. He "only" broke skin in one area but I got some pretty nasty bruises from it. Anyway, I was so shook up I went to my neighbor's house and waited for my husband to come home. About 45 min later we went back in our house and he immediately went nuts. Our poor coonhound happened to be in the line of fire and Joey (our Basenji) went after him too. My husband got him off so he wasn't hurt - physically anyway - and after a huge struggle, finally got him into his crate.

The weird thing is that once he was in his crate he literally growled and bared his teeth until that night when I was finally able to get a sedative for him. Even that didn't totally eliminate it. He'd been growling for nearly 8 hours straight regardless if anyone was in the room with him or not. I even took video of it because I've never seen anything so odd and thought it might help a behaviorist determine what's up. Anyway, the next morning I figured everything would be fine but as soon as I came downstairs he was at it again and was even shaking a little. He kept this up until I got him to the vet that morning. We had to literally carry the crate to the car with him in it because he was acting so vicious.

Since he's been at the vet, he's been nothing but an angel and all his bloodwork came back fine so he's seemingly healthy.

Has anyone seen this kind of behavior? Any thoughts? Please help!