STILL at the petstore!

Though it is not his fault that he is in the situation, if the pet store turns a profit on him meaning selling him for anything more than $350-400 then they will just continue to bring in more and so the puppy mill cycle continues. Puppy mills and pet stores continue to do business because people are buying their dogs even knowing they are from a mill but justifying the purchase by saying, "I was saving the dog", "It's not his fault, if I didn't buy him think what could have happened". It doesn't matter to them why you buy the bottom line is if they made a profit they will continue to do it. The dam and sire of that puppy that was purchased will continue to live in mill conditions with limited human contact, and limited physical and mental stimulation.

But what happens to the pup if it is never sold? Quite the dilemma.

I agree it is definatley a dilemma only the purchaser can decide, but it is nice to have so many opinions to help make the decision.

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with these "responsible breeders" who think its better to leave a puppy in the store so he can be put to sleep in a month.

If you get a puppy from a pet store you are rescuing him. Not getting him isn't going to stop irresponsible breeders from doing what they've done for decades. If you really think that a dog with champion bloodlines will suit you better go for it, but that dog doesn't have a choice and neither do the other millions in pet stores right now. Saying you won't get him because he's from a mill won't change anything.

@Danny:

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with these "responsible breeders" who think its better to leave a puppy in the store so he can be put to sleep in a month.

If you get a puppy from a pet store you are rescuing him. Not getting him isn't going to stop irresponsible breeders from doing what they've done for decades. If you really think that a dog with champion bloodlines will suit you better go for it, but that dog doesn't have a choice and neither do the other millions in pet stores right now. Saying you won't get him because he's from a mill won't change anything.

I concur, totally. A dog has to be rescued, then rescue the dog. Regardless of where it came from. Its better that a basenji savvy person buy this pup rather then someone with no experience with this breed buying this pup and giving up on him. Most likely the pup will end up in a pound.

Actually, continuing to buy puppy mill dogs will keep perpetuating the cycle. Unless the store does not make money on that sale they will continue to buy puppies from mills to sell to anyone willing to shell out the money for the dog. It is basic economics, if there is no demand then there will be no supply. The suppliers do not care about what your reason for lining their pockets are just that they get their money. If they can not turn a profit then they will not do it.

If the dog can be obtained for cost so that profit is not made then great but if not, it only condemns future puppies to the same fate or worse.

Our local pet store down the street that sold pups went out of business last month. Not sure what happened to all the resident puppies :(, but I was really happy to see it go! Last time I was in New Mexico, they had a super cool pet store that had all rescue (real rescues!!) dogs for sale 🙂 Most were a year or older and people were loving them! Such a better situation! Wish it was the norm.

There will always be puppy buyers. When Breeders don't return your call or email, the easiest way to attain your puppy is to go to a pet store. So there will always be buyers out there for all breeds. I don't see this matter solved anytime soon. And letting a puppy who had no choice suffer isn't right. Owning a puppymill isn't against the law, so untill the government or ppl of power do something about it this will continue regardless if we like it or not.

That is so right… the people that sell these pups could not care less why you paid such an outragous price... and claim "rescue".... for the pups own good.... by not buying from a pet store or a BYB... they will think carefully the next time they "stock" the store with puppies.. or decide to bred a litter.

In the past two years, many puppy millers got out of the Basenji breeding business and sold their breeding stock at auction...why... because they couldn't make money....

@NicholasDenis:

There will always be puppy buyers. When Breeders don't return your call or email, the easiest way to attain your puppy is to go to a pet store. So there will always be buyers out there for all breeds. I don't see this matter solved anytime soon. And letting a puppy who had no choice suffer isn't right. Owning a puppymill isn't against the law, so untill the government or ppl of power do something about it this will continue regardless if we like it or not.

I totally disagree with you… and while you are correct that some breeders do not return calls, this is not particularly the norm... and to say this is the easy way... well, yes... that is maybe the case, but also it leads to the fact that the breed was not researched before purchasing to understand health concerns... and in the case of puppies from a puppy mill.... it is for sure NOT "you get what you pay for"... as for those prices, you would think you are getting a health pet... and many times that is not the case.

I'm in no way shape or form defending these puppy mills. But I do feel that it is wrong for that puppy at the pet store to suffer. He should be running in the backyard like all our B's do.

Nicholas, while what you say is true, for those of us who have had personal experience with puppy mills know what is behind the dogs they breed. You have a puppy that came from extensively health tested dogs, where temperment was considered, where the health of the puppy and sire and dam were considered. Puppy mill breeders do not care. There are puppy mills all over-Quebec (sorry) is considered the puppy mill of Canada. There is one puppy mill that has over 200 dogs where these people cannot be touched yet because the law, for the moment, is on their side. If you have ever saw a puppy mill in action, your stomach would definitely turn. Even hard core people who are used to this sort of stuff have issues with it.

Let's look at it this way, they buy a bitch and a sire-we'll say $800 each, there is $1600. They start breeding at (we'll say to be fair) two years old. (Many breed first season) They have 3 puppies in that litter. The second litter they have 5 puppies. If they sell these puppies at (Robyn's estimate) $300 each, the first litter gave them $900, the second litter gave them $1500. They have now made a profit within two years-everything after that is pure profit. As you know I always return e-mails and phone calls. I also follow up on those that have inquired to see if they found anything and to talk further with them to make sure they know what they are getting into. Money for a true breeder (IMO) is not a must-I turned down a woman because she thought she could pay me whatever she wanted and receive a puppy! NOT! The more you perpetuate these puppy mills, they more they breed. The people on this forum are not saying do not save the puppy, they are saying to try to get it at a price that will deter the puppy mill and the pet store from getting more.

We have a rescue right now that came back. She's definitely a puppy mill dog. She has personality issues, but she also has health issues that we have to delve into further. So far we have about $600 in vet bills so far. This is her second round back by the way. She's also only 4 years old.

All I'm saying is there is no win-win situation. It's all win-lose. If you leave the puppy there, chances are he will be returned to the puppy mill or euthanized. If you take the puppy, at the price they are asking, you help the puppy mill in effect, but help the puppy and may put yourself in place for a lifetime of health problems. It is definitely a dilemma and there are no good answers.

@NicholasDenis:

I'm in no way shape or form defending these puppy mills. But I do feel that it is wrong for that puppy at the pet store to suffer. He should be running in the backyard like all our B's do.

Of course it's wrong , but like Lisa and Pat said it still perpetuates the cycle. You buy the dog, the petshop will replace the dog. Supply meets demand. Fighting puppies at petstores is like a game of chess, in order to win the war the smaller pieces are often, regrettably sacrificed in the name of something bigger. Getting puppymills to lose money on these dogs is pretty much the most effective weapon we have against them. Refusing to purchase puppy who should be running around in someone's yard is a painful and disgusting sacrifice, that the dog in no way deserves, however by purchasing the dog it paves the way for hundreds MORE puppies to be born in unacceptable and abusive conditions. It's these little ones for the greater masses of puppies unborn. We live in a sick world where people breed for profit, we can't save every single one. Furthermore the harder thing to digest is that by not saving one, we can save many. Animal justice does come at a price, everything worth having does.

And just hope for the case by case basis, maybe the dog will get so old and unsellable (hopefully to the point they wont stock the breed again) that the store will allow Andrew to take the dog. One never knows.

This is why I never visit pet store animals!

Some states are now attempting to regulate puppy mills and BYB. Maybe we should work with our legislators to help get these laws passsed - in ways that won't put responsible breeders out of business.

I am so glad as said before that there are not very many pet stores in California that still sell puppes (or kittens)…. anymore.... most were closed down by Animal control or they went out of business

I've never bought a puppy from a pet store but I do go to visit and socialize with them, actually my whole family does. We went to see them last Sunday but there was none, we asked what happened to the puppies and we were told that the store wasn't accepting anymore puppies b/c the local vet wasn't accepting anymore patients. Appearently a Vet passed last summer so the only other vet in Terrace was being ovr whelmed with patients that he stopped accepting new ones.

When I was very young and ignorant, I worked at a large and well known pet store at the local mall. I know how pet stores run and I know what goes on behind the scenes. Pet stores do not euthanize healthy puppies no matter how old they get. The price keeps dropping until someone takes them or else they are given to an employee. At the store I worked at, sick puppies were recorded as "dead" and then given to employees without papers. The store got credited from the broker for the "dead" puppy and another one would be shipped to them. THIS is how I got my first Basenji in 1985. She had kennel cough when she was shipped to the store. She was isolated from the other pups but when the kennel cough just wouldn't clear up, she was marked off as "dead" and given to one of the employees. Kennel cough is no big deal but in a pet store situation, it can spread like wildfire and this means all the affected puppies must be taken off the market until it is erradicated. This seriously affects the store's profit margin and it costs the store less money to just give away the affected pup than it does to treat 30+ temporarily unsellable puppies. The employee kept the Basenji for a couple weeks and decided the breed was wrong for her. Knowing that I had wanted a Basenji since I was a little kid she gave the Basenji to me. The kennel cough cleared up within a couple of weeks and I had a healthy, energetic, and very annoying Basenji puppy.

Edited to add: I know someone will ask so…....I only had her a few months. My ex and I both worked full time, lived in a tiny one bedroom apartment, and didn't know about crate training at the time. The Basenji was hyperactive and no matter how much exercise we gave her, she just never calmed down. I gave her to a family who was a more appropriate home. I never lost my love of the breed but I waited until the time was right to get one.

@NicholasDenis:

I'm in no way shape or form defending these puppy mills. But I do feel that it is wrong for that puppy at the pet store to suffer. He should be running in the backyard like all our B's do.

Agreed. We need strong legislation against these puppy farms, that in my opinion is the only thing that would change anything.

The thing is that the anti-breeder legislation that is being proposed specifically exempts puppy mills and target responsible hobby breeders. Most states do not want to lose revenue from puppy mills.

Truly, the only thing that I have seen make a difference is education. If people do not buy from pet stores then they go out of business and their suppliers will too. Right now though there is an increase in online sales giving mills a new outlet for their puppies. Again, the only way to combat this is education. If people take the time to do their homework and make a conscious effort to obtain their next puppy from either a responsible breeder who is health testing, socializing, and active in the breed community or from a rescue organization then over time we will see a change. It is a slow process and can be very frustrating and often repetitive but it does work.

I read somewhere at this forum where in other countries puppies are never sold in pet stores. I wonder if this really cuts down on the "purely for profit" breeders, or do they just sell on the internet.

There has to be a way to stop (or cut down) on the puppy mill operations. Perhaps legislation against the sale of puppies in pet stores is the way to start.

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